Wednesday, April 28, 2010

Family, Politics, and War!

Got to post this Crazy and amazing e-mail conversation I have had with my family. More may come if it keeps coming in.

Names have been changed to protect anonymity.

Original E-mail sent in Mass format that got sent to me. From someone we will name Dave.



Obama's reading material is, The Post-American World!
"Post" America means the world After America !
The book was written by a fellow Muslim.
Forward this picture to every American, conservative
or liberal.
Obama's radical ideas will bring down our beloved America..
Love'm or hate'm,we need to be aware of this.
And, if you think as I do that he is the worst person to move into the Oval Office;
Let's take the bugger down through the Internet.
The majority of the press are worshiping at his feet.
If each person sends this to a minimum of twenty people on their address list,
in three days, all people in The United States of America would have the message.
I believe this is one expose' that really should be passed around.

So I replied:

Thank you for this but I think that it is quite misleading. Because of 2 things.

1. This book has nothing to do with a want for America to decline. A simple google search on this book got me the Amazon booksellers website. The description for the book is this...

There is a good interview with the Author on the Amazon sellers website as well that you may want to read before casting too many stones.

I seem to agree with some of what he says and don't agree with other parts. But it definitely paints a much less Radical opinion than the original letter has implied.

2. Even if it were Anti-American Propoganda wouldn't it be in the presidents best interest to read it to know what he is up against? It would be akin to Roosevelt reading Mein Kahmf (Hitler's book) during World War II to know his enemy better.

I am not the type of person who believes in following a leader blindly, and I totally support calling the president on every move that he makes if they are mistakes. Full court pressure no matter who the president is. But lets be fair and honest with our criticisms and not jump to irrational conclusions.

Love you all and hope you are well


Then others got involved
We will name him Luke:

I can only say AMEN to the below comment!! Very well said.


I agree Daniel!! Following blindly only leads to trouble!!

Dave again:

i to belive that one should read the books of ones enemy just as Patton read Romels book. i have read any thing on tactics of any previous leaders succes or failur that i can get my hands on just to ensure that my soldier get the best training posible. But picture or no picture the guy is a snake who will take the same mindless aproach to our defence and offence that other less agressive presidents have taken (i would give examples but i get angry just thinking about them if you want to know pick up "The Men, The Mission and Me" by Pete Blaber). Say what you want about the wars in Iraq and Afganastan and what you belive the reasons for being there are, but i have walked on the sands and I belive the cause is just. With a president setting a date or timeline for withdraw you only tell the enemy that they have to lay low and hold out till the day they can go back to training for attacks on our soil instead of fighting us on thiers. Just think what would the world be like today if durring WW2 some one said ok the nazis are back on german soil lets go home now. so do i belive that obama is a extrimest NO but do i beleive his politics are an unseen enemy YES


Dave, for better or worse, our founding fathers saw fit to have civilian control over the military. In my opinion that was a brilliant move. If you favor a government where the military rules then your view of history of those kinds of governments is different from mine.

If Obama's policies is truly an enemy of the military then why did he send all those extra troops to a 14th century country that has never in all of history since Alexander the Great been defeated? The terrorist enemy is not subject to the sledge hammer approach of an army. We're just wasting young lives. We've already lost far more lives in dead and severely wounded than all of those that died in the twin towers on 9/11.

We need a smart war, one with special ops and drones ferreting out the rats who are the terrorists, not bludgeoning an entire country, innocent and guilty alike with massive military operations. I'm unhappy with Obama but only because he hasn't ended these unjust and ineffective wars immediately. Perpetually fighting a war of no end only gives victory to the terrorists who, small in number and elusive, are laughing as we drain our treasury and the blood of our precious soldiers without any defiinite goal or end point.


I have one question for you: "If you were a soldier, like Dave is now, would you want your life in the hands of the politicians?"
It is easy for politicians both Republicans and Democrats to sit safe and comfortable in Washington D.C. posturing with their politics; while our soldiers like Dave, along with his brothers ___ and ____, are on the front lines fighting for us. The politicians need to "untie" the hands of the military leadership who are there on the front lines where the military leaders see what needs to be done and can get the job done.
I will use an analogy of a car. The driver sees what's going on in front (i.e. traffic signals, pedestrians, obstacles, oncoming traffic, etc.). However riding shotgun is the driver's boss giving orders on which way to turn, what laws to obey, how to move forward, pause and so forth. BUT the front passenger driver is not using his judgement on what he sees outside the windshield; he is directing the driver based on orders from a cellphone. On the other line are the Executives barking out orders: Go forward; No wait, stop; Turn Left...Oops Stop Turn Right.
While the driver and front passenger have their lives on the line, the Executives are sitting comfortably in no danger enjoying their regular fat paychecks. Obviously driver = soldiers, front passenger = military command, and fat cat executives = politicians.
It angers me that all these politicians regardless of their politics can sit in Washington D.C. making decisions that affect ALL Americans while they themselves are exempt from the fallouts. Say what you want Lee; I am a person who wants equity and justice for all. But I am an American citizen, my parents were immigrants who came to America legally from a different country. I was taught to respect the United States of America and I can tell you that the majority of people in Hawaii are not proud that Barack Obama is from Hawaii. The majority of us in Hawaii will tell you he is a liar who was born in Indonesia, he is a Muslim, and is evil. He is only protected by some politicians in Hawaii (again with the greedy politicians who love their monies). I personally do not trust liars from whatever beliefs or walks of life they hail from.
Holler out to the __________ Family ~ the majority of the addressees here are from the ___________ Family. All I want is for us to love each other as family and support each other. We still have our freedom thanks to the bravery of soldiers past and present.
I do know one thing...Family protects its own. Right now we have family safely retired from the military, family that recently retired from the military, and family in the military: HOOAH to the present family in the military
It is for them that I care not about the politicians, except that they stand back and stop endangering my family! Next time I say we put the politicians ALL of them on the front line of EVERY issue to see if they'd still make the same decisions.


To all readers!

I have enjoyed that we have all felt comfortable in shareing our thoughts and feelings politically! I do want to say one thing...the start of all this discussion was that an email that didn't have it's sources right was sent out...while I second the love that I have for the soldiers in our family and across the world!! The issue is that propaganda goes out and it's believed without questioning it. Herein is the problem!

Penny I love the analogy and I agree that our politicians are the fatcats sitting back doing nothing but the real power is in OUR voice!! Make it heard!! Get involved with what is happening around you!! OUR voice gets the politicians where they are and when they stop standing for what we believe we need to replace them!!

Love you all and can't wait to see you at the family reunion!!


Penny, what then is your alternative to the system we have now? I'm asking a serious question... how would you structure government to eliminate the problems between politicians and the military? How many governments throughout history have not sent their young men out to fight while they stay back in there capitols, palaces or fortresses and give orders?

I share your your feelings for those brave souls who are out there on the front lines. Dave, his brothers and all the other men and women. My problem is that I feel too many of them have died or been wounded needlessly, even though valiently for wars ill conceived and executed.

We are fighting an enemy that has no nationality and who's numbers we only have a vague idea of. It just seems to me that there could be better ways to root out these international criminals than decimating an entire country with the all the collateral destruction of lives and property of the inhabitants. Swatting a fly with sledge hammer doesn't seem the most logical way. I blame the politicians as you do but they are being advised by generals and admirals and the crap just keep on being handed down to the guys with the rifles.

I lived in Hawaii for 33 years and taught school while Obama was attending Punahou. I'm surprised that you say that the majority of Hawaiian residents are not proud of him. How do you know this? I haven't seen any polls that show this. Maybe you can point me to the information, I've missed it. None of the people I correspond with over there have indicated this. Let me know where I can find those facts. Has it been published in the Advertiser or Star Bulletin?

Also can you direct me to the evidence of his Indonesian birth? Is there a document to back that up unlike the one on record in Hawaii showing his birth there? If there isn't any evidence, could it be that Obama's enemies are the ones who are lying? Just a thought.

Also he can't be a very good Muslim and never attend services in a mosque or throw down his prayer rug 5 times a day and bow to Mecca. Instead he proclaims a Christian faith, meets with Christian ministers such as Billy Graham. If he's a liar, he sure is a good one being under constant public scrutiny you'd think someone would catch him in the act of being Muslim!

Anyway, Pennyi, Mahalo for joining in the conversation and sharing your Mana'o.

Dave again:

Ok Luke mabey you miss interpit what i say a little bit but not much but here is the real deal with facts to prove if you would like to check. I do not beleive that we should be under military rule but i do belive that a congressman from BFE with no tactical or military experiance should be able to say a mission is a go or a no go. Military missions should be under the control of Military Leaders. SPECOPS and UAV's work great but if they are not ran correctly they are just as usless as sending the police to fight a fire. now here are the facts from unclasified military documents. Durring 1998 a commander from Special Operations Detachment Delta AKA Delta Force was given the task of perparing an operation of a snatch and grab of a know terrorist leader Osama Bin Laden. durring this time bin Laden was a creature of habit from growing up with a life of privilage he routinely used a satelite phone and travled around afganastan in a convoy of newer Range Rovers. when the concept of the operation was compleet and presented to the president (a politican) for a proval he was determined not a priority of that administration. 4 months latter he put in to play the bomings of 2 us embasies in affrica. less than a year latter a chance came again to capture or kill bin laden and the SPECOPS Commanding general sugestion to use the plan on soldiers from delta was declined to fire 76 tomahaks at the locations that the wonder of electronic enteligenc said the target would be. he was not and becaus of the attack of empty targets bin laden relized he was a target and went under ground.
Second Fact. Durring the inital invasion of afganastan a politician decided to use special ops to lead the inital assult in to afganastan on 2 targets a air field and a house of a suspected taliban leader. both targets where highly likley to be empty but this did no matter to the politican with the plan this operation was about shock and aww and CNN news coverage though military leaders advised against it and had credibal intel stateing that the enemy was still in thier homes in kandahar. the plan was sent forward for shock and aww. this plan became an embarsement for the military and made the enemy relize that we had intentions to invade afganastan so the fled to the mountains and the shaikot vally to set up to deffend against the invaders. which further led to the mess known as operation anaconda. Both of these are prime examples of politicans sticking thier heads where they dont belong. Every soldier joins the military with knowlage that they could die in combat some day and yet still accept this and some time reenlist to stay even after they have been deployed to combat zones been shot at but yet still they stay. But when you let the politicans dictate the rules of engagment then you prolong the war because you dont let the soldiers play to win.
Just becaus obama sent in extra troops dose not mean hes a friend of the military he has anounce plans to with draw from both countries and a rough timelin to do it Think of it like this you just robed a bank and your in the 27 hour of hostage negotations and while holding up in seige you see on the news that the mayor just ordered the police chief to head back to the station if it goes to hour 29. Second he as just given me the worst pay raise i have recived in 10 years in the militray which is less than the anual inflation rate so basicly he just gave the entire army a huge pay cut. and last in 2008 the democrat party drew up a bill that would call for a time line for withdraw from iraq atached to the same bull was the military 2009 pay raise now what kind of low life POS would tie thier own ajenda to the pay of the military well i will tell you who was on the commity OBAMA!!!


Dave, thanks for taking the time to explain all this to me. I am far from being any kind of military expert, Having lived through the Vietnam era I know full well what politicians can do with a war effort that goes bad.

As for Obama, I'm not going to make any excuses for him. Certainly anything he does is not going to please everyone but I don't think he's any worse than Bush. From your perspective I can understand your anger regarding the pay raise. I didn't get ANY raise in my social security, we all suffer in this very bad economy, which by the way, Obama inherited from the previous administration. His efforts to dig us out of the hole Bush and the Republicans left us in may not be pretty or beneficial to everyone right away but like it or not, the majority of Americans elected him president and we just have to live with it until the next election. Then if he has screwed up as badly as you think, then work for his defeat in 2012. Those of us who are more liberal suffered through the hell of Bush for 8 years, now those right of center will just have to suck it up and do the same. The pendulum will swing eventually, it always has as long as the people have the vote.

Dave again:

yes war dose cost a lot of money 795 Billion durring the bush administration to be exact but durring the first 3 months of the obama adminstration he send us in the red another 900 billion which went to bailing out banks and people still lost thier homes bailing out major coperations and people still lost thier jobs and the recivers of the bail outs used the money to give them selves 7 figure bonuses im sure that will help out with campain contributions in 2012 demecrat or republican any body should be able to see through this BS

At this point I felt that the discussion had strayed quite a bit, so this was my next response...

Wow Dave,

It is so refreshing to hear your opinion. I feel like the vast majority of the public both Conservative and Liberal are bombarded with opinions and "facts" by the media that we sometimes don't know what to think. I have often heard right wing and left wing pundits spout off "what the troops think of... is..." and I have often wondered to myself, what do the troops REALLY think of this. I have never thought to just ask you. Someone that I know that is living the reality of war while I sit safe in my Hippie community.

I love the fact that we share a name, a family tree, grew up together (remember those crazy sleep overs we used to try to stay up all night playing video games?), we are very close in age, and still have made very different life choices. You chose to serve humanity by protecting this country from the violence of the world. I chose to serve humanity by being a pacifist and have it in my head to work for non-profits to promote growth and peace. I feel honored to be associated with you.

I have had the distinct privilege to lead somewhat of a double life. I spend 9 months of the year in what I lovingly call my Hippie community. We tend to be a pretty liberal bunch. So much so that most people here consider Obama Right Wing and Conservative. I have probably been to as many governmental protests and rallies against the Democrats as I have been against the Republicans with this group.

Then I travel back to Utah for 3-4 months of the year for the holidays while my job season is over. This puts me back into the world of the Conservative. Where Billboards for Glenn Beck outnumber that of anything else I have seen and people watch Fox News for most of their information.

If there is anything that I have learned from this experience is that we all want basically the same things. We all want shelter, food, and to live in peace with our families. Regardless of what the media and politicians like us to believe Americans tend to be very similar across the board. Can we find "Hot Button" Issues that spark a flame in us all? Absolutely! And politicians and media are in the business of doing this for votes and viewership. But we the american people (in my experience) all want the same thing. And I think that is beautiful.

I just had the privilege to sit in a community discussion with one of my teachers, Julia Butterfly Hill, (She is the crazy hippie you may remember that sat in a tree for 2 years to save a forest from being clear cut, (there is a simpsons episode that spoofs this that you must see if you haven't yet, it's quite funny)) she said that one of the pitfalls in trying to be "right" is that we tend to forget that we are connected. And that seems to be the disease that plagues our lands today. I seem to have forgotten that in my original e-mail and for that I am sorry. I was triggered, Shempa is what that is called in the Buddhist tradition, or the hook that gets us passionate and angry. And I forgot that we all want the same thing.

Dave, I would love to add your e-mail to my list and ask you questions about things that I don't understand. Get clarity about some of the "truths" that I hear all around me all the time and pick your brain about your opinion on them if you don't mind.

One quick thing I would like to point out that has been bothering me about this exchange before I close out this novel I seem to be writing (sorry, I normally don't speak this much).

It pains me to hear people equate Muslim with "Bad Guy". Let's try to remember that the VAST majority of the Muslim people are peace loving and do not agree with Bin Laden's politics or his way of getting things done. Saying that all Muslim's are terrorists or that they are bad because they are Muslim is like saying that all Christians belong to the KKK, or all Mormons Have a few hundred children locked in a basement. People go crazy in all religions and no religion has dodged that bullet.

Thanks for your time if you even read this far, can't blame you if you didn't. :)

The End.

Crazy right?

Just wanted to keep this to remember it. I will post more if more happens. :)


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